Battle of attrition - Revision history

Luigifan: Grammar check

2024-02-18T15:40:19Z

Grammar check

Choongmyoung at 07:14, 27 December 2018

2018-12-27T07:14:02Z

Choongmyoung: An example is better than a theory here.

2018-12-11T08:52:41Z

An example is better than a theory here.

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Choongmyoung at 09:34, 20 January 2018

2018-01-20T09:34:53Z

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Zayyeh at 14:07, 2 March 2016

2016-03-02T14:07:02Z

Zayyeh at 14:05, 2 March 2016

2016-03-02T14:05:31Z

Zayyeh at 13:51, 2 March 2016

2016-03-02T13:51:33Z

Zayyeh at 13:44, 2 March 2016

2016-03-02T13:44:27Z

Zayyeh at 10:29, 2 March 2016

2016-03-02T10:29:49Z

Zayyeh at 10:22, 2 March 2016

2016-03-02T10:22:41Z

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 Or is it?
-'''Battle of attrition''' or '''Regen-fighting''' is the term used by Desktop Dungeons creators of define a fight when you are exploring mid-fight to gain health and mana.
+'''Battle of attrition''' or '''Regen-fighting''' is the term used by Desktop Dungeons creators when you are exploring mid-fight to gain health and mana.
-As you will often want to fighter monster at an higher level than you are, they would often heal quicker than you. So knowing if you can do it is not always obvious. here are some tips to know when you can do it.
+As you will often want to fight monster at a higher level than you are, they would often heal quicker than you. So knowing if you can do it is not always obvious. Here are some tips to know when you can do it.
 Note that you can read [[Annotated Playthrough: Regenfighting]] for more explanation.
 == When to regen-fight ==
-Whenever a tile is explored, the player and all monsters will heal a number of hit points equal to their level.  So a 5th level monster heals 5 hit points per tile.  Some special abilities, such as {{t|fast regen}} can modify this, but such abilities are rare. Since most difficult monsters will be higher level than you, this means they also heal more health than you.  If you want to win a long-term battle of attrition, you'll need to deal more damage then them or have some other kind of advantage.  Often times, a glyph such as {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} or {{s|APHEELSIK}} is exactly the advantage you need to do this.
+Whenever a tile is explored, the player and all monsters will heal a number of hit points equal to their level. So a 5th level monster heals 5 hit points per tile  Some special abilities, such as {{t|fast regen}}, can modify this, but such abilities are rare. Since most difficult monsters will be higher level than you, this means they also heal more health than you. If you want to win a long-term battle of attrition, you'll need to deal more damage then them or have some other kind of advantage. Often times, a glyph such as {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} or {{s|APHEELSIK}} is exactly the advantage you need to do this.
 In general, your regen-fight is efficient when
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 You may have lower attack and lower health regeneration than your target, but the mana regeneration fills the gap. Many glyphs can be used with these mana.
-{{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} is the standard glyph as it always spawns. Its damage alone seems below average, but its burning lowers targets' regeneration rate so it's not bad.
+{{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} is the standard glyph as it always spawns. Its damage alone seems below average, but its burning lowers targets' regeneration rate, so it's not bad.
 {{s|HALPMEH}} is actually very poor. But being the only glyph which directly heals you, high attack and resistances make this glyph much better than usual.
-{{s|BYSSEPS}} has average damage per mana rate, However, you will need other glyphs because it can be only used once per hit, and health is mostly consumed faster than mana. So it's not an ideal glyph to use.
+{{s|BYSSEPS}} has average damage per mana rate. However, you will need other glyphs because it can be only used once per hit, and health is mostly consumed faster than mana. So it's not an ideal glyph to use.
 {{s|PISORF}} requires a lot of walls to use in chain, so most of the time you will use a fixed secondary target monster. Then the efficiency is bad.
 {{s|APHEELSIK}} is literally made for regen-fighting, but since it is too great you will over-poison the target without help of other glyphs.
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 === {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} ===
 Since BURNDAYRAZ is the only glyph spawning in every run, this will be your main glyph used for regen-fighting. This glyph is good because leaving a {{t|burning}} stack will lower its health regeneration rate by 1.
 Let's say you are Lv5 with 30 attack, the enemy is Lv6 with 40 attack. By exploring 6 tiles,
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 * All thing considered, 22.5 + 21 - 30 = 13.5 damage is done per six tiles.
 It's positive so I win the battle, though its efficiency is around average.
 Also, to show how resistances are superb on regen-fighting, let's consider the same situation with '''25% resists'''. Then the enemy's attack is effectively 30.
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 * So you are dealing 3.75 damage per five tiles.
 Sadly, this fight will use up all of your blackspaces left.
 If you improved your melee ability by having 25% resists,
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 === {{s|PISORF}} ===
-When you are pushing a monster into a wall, the mana efficiency of {{s|PISORF}} is exactly same with {{s|BYSSEPS}}. So it's quite average, and if you are under {{g|Binlor}} this gives you piety. But when you don't have enough wall, you should find a stationary target to push it against. Then PISORF does only 48% of your base attack instead of 60% (often even less because of the damage is rounded down), making it very dissapointing glyph to use.
+When you are pushing a monster into a wall, the mana efficiency of {{s|PISORF}} is exactly same with {{s|BYSSEPS}}. So it's quite average, and if you are under {{g|Binlor}} this gives you piety. But when you don't have enough wall, you should find a stationary target to push it against. Then PISORF does only 48% of your base attack instead of 60% (often even less because of the damage is rounded down), making it a very disappointing glyph to use.
 === {{s|APHEELSIK}} ===
-This poison glyph is arguably the singlemost best glyph when you are doing a regen-fight. By simple calcaulation, you can completely stop the regen of a monster whose level is twice of you. Actually this glyph is too strong so that you will apply overflowing amount of poison to target. Generally {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} is used with spare mana, but other glyphs all stand their chance because APHEELSIK is just too strong. To make things simple, let's just assume you have BURNDAYRAZ and burning isn't considered at all.
+This poison glyph is arguably the single best glyph when you are doing a regen-fight. By simple calcaulation, you can completely stop the regen of a monster whose level is twice yours. Actually, this glyph is too strong so that you will apply overflowing amount of poison to target. Generally {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} is used with spare mana, but other glyphs all stand their chance because APHEELSIK is just too strong. To make things simple, let's just assume you have BURNDAYRAZ and burning isn't considered at all.
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 === {{s|BLUDTUPOWA}} ===
-{{s|BLUDTUPOWA}} makes you possible to kill some quirky enemies such as {{m|Wraith}}, {{m|Acid Blob}} or {{m|Naga}}. These three monsters all have reduced health so you don't even need to regen-fight normally. Often this glyph is used with {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}}, and actually it's the best since {{t|burning}} stack will give a huge boost to the damage done. You can usually win the battle with it. However, regen-fight with BLUDTUPOWA eats up too much blackspaces so it's not encouraged to use it too often.
+{{s|BLUDTUPOWA}} makes you possible to kill some quirky enemies such as {{m|Wraith}}, {{m|Acid Blob}} or {{m|Naga}}. These three monsters all have reduced health so you don't even need to regen-fight normally. Often this glyph is used with {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}}, and actually it's the best since {{t|burning}} stack will give a huge boost to the damage done. You can usually win the battle with it. However, regen-fight with BLUDTUPOWA eats up too much blackspace, so it's not encouraged to use it too often.
-−
 Let's say you are Lv5, and the enemy is Lv8. You are using {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}}.

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 * {{t|Poisonous}} - unless you have {{s|HALPMEH}} or {{t|Poison Immune}}.
 * {{t|Mana burn}} - unless you have {{t|Mana Burn Immune}}.
-* {{t|Curse Bearer}} - only if you have some resists or damage reduction, with sufficient popcorns.
+* {{t|Curse Bearer}} - unless you don't have some resists or damage reduction or have sufficient popcorns.
 * {{t|Weakening}} or {{t|Corrosive}} - just no.
@@ Line 145: / Line 145: @@
 === {{c|Rat Monarch}} ===
-The Rat Monarch is a special class. The damage done gradually grows, and the Rat Monarch can win just anybody when enough blackspaces are given. {{s|HALPMEH}} helps stacking corrosion stacks, but isn't very good for landing a killing blow. {{s|PISORF}} doesn't do good damage unless you stacked a huge amount of corrosion. {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} is often the best glyph in final blow, and {{s|APHEELSIK}} is somewhat overshadows by BURNDAYRAZ.
+The Rat Monarch is a special class. The damage done gradually grows, and the Rat Monarch can win just anybody when enough blackspaces are given. {{s|HALPMEH}} helps stacking corrosion stacks, but isn't very good for landing a killing blow. {{s|PISORF}} doesn't do good damage unless you stacked a huge amount of corrosion. {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}} is often the best glyph in final blow, and {{s|APHEELSIK}} is somewhat overshadowed by BURNDAYRAZ.
 One interesting glyph is {{s|CYDSTEPP}}, which allows the Rat Monarch to stack corrosion stacks to a big monster such as bosses. This glyph doesn't help to regen-fight for other classes.

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 Each tile you regenerate 1 mp/t (except Chemist in mana mode) = D<sub>f</sub>/C<sub>f</sub>.
 Usualy it's 4&times;L<sub>f</sub>/6 (5 if wizard or Mystic Balance, and 8 if Berserker)
-Thus, P<sub>h</sub>=D<sub>h</sub>(L<sub>h</sub>+(2/3)L<sub>h</sub>)=D<sub>h</sub>(5/3)L<sub>h</sub>
+Thus, P<sub>h</sub>=(D<sub>h</sub>+1)(L<sub>h</sub>+(2/3)L<sub>h</sub>)=D<sub>h</sub>(5/3)L<sub>h</sub>
 If you keep burning effect on a monster every time when you begin regen fighting, his effective regeneration gets lowered by 1

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 {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}}:
-Each tile you regenerate 1 mp/t (except Chemist in mana mode) = D<sub>f</sub>/C<sub>f</sub>. Usualy it's 4&times;L<sub>f</sub>/6 (5 if wizard or Mystic Balance, and 8 if Berserker)
+Each tile you regenerate 1 mp/t (except Chemist in mana mode) = D<sub>f</sub>/C<sub>f</sub>.
 Thus, P<sub>h</sub>=D<sub>h</sub>(L<sub>h</sub>+(2/3)L<sub>h</sub>)=D<sub>h</sub>(5/3)L<sub>h</sub>
 If you keep burning effect on a monster every time when you begin regen fighting, his effective regeneration gets lowered by 1
 P<sub>m</sub>=D<sub>m</sub>(L<sub>m</sub>-1)

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 You can regen fight if D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub>>D<sub>m</sub>L<sub>m</sub> or P<sub>h</sub>>P<sub>m</sub>  (1)
 {{s|BURNDAYRAZ}}:
-Each tile you regenerate 1 mp/t = D<sub>f</sub>/C<sub>f</sub>. Usualy it's 4&times;L<sub>f</sub>/6
+Each tile you regenerate 1 mp/t (except Chemist in mana mode) = D<sub>f</sub>/C<sub>f</sub>. Usualy it's 4&times;L<sub>f</sub>/6 (5 if wizard or Mystic Balance, and 8 if Berserker)
 Thus, P<sub>h</sub>=D<sub>h</sub>(L<sub>h</sub>+(2/3)L<sub>h</sub>)=D<sub>h</sub>(5/3)L<sub>h</sub>
+If you keep burning effect on a monster every time when you begin regen fighting, his effective regeneration gets lowered by 1
+P<sub>m</sub>=D<sub>m</sub>(L<sub>m</sub>-1)
 D<sub>t</sub> = (D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub> - D<sub>m</sub>(R<sub>m</sub> - D<sub>f</sub>  &frasl; C<sub>f</sub>)) &frasl; D<sub>m</sub> (in hp/t)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:44, 2 March 2016
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	You can regen fight if D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub>>D<sub>m</sub>L<sub>m</sub> or P<sub>h</sub>>P<sub>m</sub> (1)		You can regen fight if D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub>>D<sub>m</sub>L<sub>m</sub> or P<sub>h</sub>>P<sub>m</sub> (1)
		+	{{s\|BURNDAYRAZ}}:
		+
		+	Each tile you regenerate 1 mp/t = D<sub>f</sub>/C<sub>f</sub>. Usualy it's 4×L<sub>f</sub>/6
		+	Thus, P<sub>h</sub>=D<sub>h</sub>(L<sub>h</sub>+(2/3)L<sub>h</sub>)=D<sub>h</sub>(5/3)L<sub>h</sub>

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 Let's define :
 * D<sub>h</sub> = damage caused by hero (in hitpoints, or hp)
 * L<sub>h</sub> = point restored by hero per tile (in hitpoints/tile, or hp/t) (usually level of the hero)
 * D<sub>f</sub> = damage caused by fireball (hp)
 * C<sub>f</sub> = number of tiles to cast a new fireball (usually, cost in mana) (t)
 * T = number of tiles required to kill the monster (t)
 * H<sub>h</sub> = total health of the hero
 * M = total mana of the hero
-* P<sub>h</sub> = D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub> = Hero power (for monks you need to multiply L<sub>h</sub> by 2)
+* H<sub>m</sub> = health of the monster in the beginning of combat (normally full health but you could do some damage to him before level up
-* P<sub>m</sub> = D<sub>m</sub>L<sub>m</sub> = Monster power (for trolls with {{t|fast regen}} you need to multiply L<sub>m</sub> by 2)
+* H = remaining health of the monster before you begin regen-fighting him (hp)

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 You have the total damage caused to the monster by the hero per tile (taking into account the regeneration) :
-D<sub>t</sub> = (D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub>-D<sub>m</sub>L<sub>m</sub>)&frasl;D<sub>m</sub>&nbsp;&nbsp;[hp/t]
+D<sub>t</sub>=(D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub>-D<sub>m</sub>L<sub>m</sub>)/D<sub>m</sub>&nbsp;&nbsp;[hp/t]
 or
-D<sub>t</sub>=(D<sub>h</sub>&frasl;D<sub>m</sub>)L<sub>h</sub>-L<sub>m</sub>
+D<sub>t</sub>=(D<sub>h</sub>/D<sub>m</sub>)L<sub>h</sub>-L<sub>m</sub>
 You can regen fight if D<sub>h</sub>L<sub>h</sub>>D<sub>m</sub>L<sub>m</sub> or P<sub>h</sub>>P<sub>m</sub>  (1)